Šimon Mandel: a conversation

Today I am interviewing one of my best friends, Šimon Mandel to talk about how we met, his European heritage, the relationship between science and philosophy and the importance of friendship.

RELIGION, SATANISM AND THE BIG KID

T: I thought it would be a good way to start if you can explain how we met and became friends about four years ago. I think it sets the stage of how we ended up getting to know each other.

S: Back in high school, in year 9, I started going to a prayer group because I thought I had to reconnect with my Christian beliefs. Because when I was younger I used to believe in God- a lot- but that kind of stopped. Then when I was around 14-15, I thought, “You know what, I really miss that kind of religious environment, I am going to get into Christianity again.” And that’s how I ended up at the Easter camp in 2013. I didn’t really know many people so I felt quite lonely. I didn’t go to a Church like most other people there so I didn’t have a big friendship group.

The way that you and I met is that you were a leader – only at the age of 17. Which is quite incredible, you were a child yourself.

T: I don’t know if it was incredible or irresponsible of the Church.

S: Who knows! But you weren’t my leader so I didn’t see how you led. But yeah, I met you playing Capture the Flag and I talked to you briefly. Then the next morning at breakfast, I didn’t have anyone to talk with and you were like, “Sit down with me, Simon!” You were with your cousin Catherine actually and we were kind of talking and we made up this inside joke that we were Satanists. And Satanism became the foundation of our friendship. It has continued into the present day.

T: That’s great! Such a funny story that you began with, “Yes, I was trying to get more into God” and ended with, “then we became Satanists.”

S: Yeah, we became Satanists! And then, after that, we would catch up every few months or so. I felt really privileged and honoured to be your friend because you were older than me and I thought, “Wow, this big kid wants to be my friend!” So whenever I caught up with you, I would pretend that I am also grown up but you were like 17!

T: That’s funny in retrospect!

 GROWING UP BOTH CZECH AND AUSTRALIAN

T: The next thing I was going to talk to you about was, going from that [story], a year and a half later in 2014 we were in a food court. Somewhere along the way you mentioned something about your background. For some reason I had no idea you were from the Czech Republic- so I was really shocked because I thought you were just an Aussie guy from Adelaide. But saying that, the more I get to know you, the more I get to know how being Czech makes up who you are.

Could you tell me about these two different backgrounds in Australia and the Czech Republic and how they have played out?

S: I was born in Czech. At the age of 3, my family took me to Sydney and then to Brisbane and when I was 8 we moved back to Czech. I lived there for 4 years and then we moved to Adelaide. So I have had a mixture of Czech upbringing and also Australian- growing up in a Czech culture and also an Australian culture. Pretty much, Czech is my first language and the only way I really learnt how to speak English was through preschool and school. I don’t know how I did it; children just learn languages really well. Because at home we just speak Czech, I don’t speak English with my family or anything. I had to learn English, my second language, through communicating and improvising with people. Even until quite recently, sometimes I wouldn’t be familiar with some English words because I wasn’t always in an English environment. It was kind of hard. But I feel like now I have caught up to everyone else [laughs]. But I don’t think my English has been bad!

It was quite hard coming from two different backgrounds. Not so much here [in Australia] but I remember when I went to Czech when I was 8 and even though we were Czech, everyone saw us as the foreign Australians. Even though we only lived in Australia for 6 years, everyone saw us as foreigners. It was hard to live in that environment. But it doesn’t really affect my life now. I think being Czech doesn’t change anything. All it means is that I speak two different languages but I guess because I did high school here the majority of my more technical vocabulary has evolved in this environment. I can speak Czech fluently but I wouldn’t be able to write full on analytical essays. 

 ON SCIENCE AND SOCIAL ORDER

T: We often joke about how our outlooks are based on really different fields- me being in the arts and you being in science. But what really strikes me about you is that you have a very humanitarian and social scientific outlook on life fuelled by your background in science. This helps us have really long, interesting chats- especially about religion.

Can you tell me more about your interest in science and what it means to you and how it helps you interpret your world?

S: I have always been interested in scientific topics in general. When I was younger I was obsessed with dinosaurs and prehistoric life. I could name so many different dinosaur species and what time period they lived- I can’t really remember that now. I was interested in dinosaurs and creatures and sea life and human evolution and the future and the overall big picture of science. That is what got me into the philosophy and the humanitarian and social side of science. I thought of science as a philosophical thing. Where do we come from? What is our purpose on this earth?

When it came to studying science at high school and getting down to the actual ‘science’ of it, I wasn’t sure of whether I wanted to study philosophy or something more social or a humanities topic. I wasn’t sure what to focus on. In the end I chose to look at the world by pursuing a more scientific career.

That definitely changed a lot of my outlook on the world. Whenever I look at a plant, I think about all the different technical things that are going on. You start looking at the world a bit differently. It doesn’t change my day to day life but sometimes I do stop and think, “Wow! We humans think we are special but we are just chemical reactions. All our struggles are for nothing and there is no meaning in life.” I do think all scientists have a spiritual view of the world or a more emotional view. I think even though I am focussed on science a lot of my passion is in politics, philosophy, how our social order works.

I love discussing social issues with you- whether it’s feminism, religion and what it [religion] means to us and how it has shaped our world. I think I have those two views and I respect them equally: both the scientific analytical side and the more creative, emotive, social side.

T: Going on from how you think about science and social world order and how they play out together- can you tell me what you think is inherently good and inherently bad when it comes to social world order and science in the world today? 

S: I think one of the big issues we face is that we treat the environment terribly- you know, pollution- and how that affects the atmosphere and global warming and climate change. The fact that people are sceptical of that and people don’t really care or listen mindlessly- I think it all adds up in the end. It’s scary the way we, well, most of humanity, are taking part in these unsustainable actions such as deforestation and mining of different materials- oil or coal. And you know *cough cough* the liberal party just doesn’t care about renewable energy and they think coal is the way. One day there won’t be any coal and using it is just damaging our environment.

I think the problem with society today is that we are so distracted by these little tiny issues that we are really invested in because it’s in our immediate social circle. You know, whether it’s a politician doing a thing and that’s the biggest issue. Or whether it’s a celebrity doing something and that’s the biggest issue in the world. But people aren’t really focussing on the long term problems that we are facing. I do think although we are trying to change our lifestyles but if we don’t change the way that we operate there will be a significant decline in our civilisation as a whole.

T: For something positive, what do you think is something that is going really well in humanity at the moment?

S: Even though that there are many bad things going on in this world I like to think that we have improved overall. We have abolished slavery, women can vote now and hopefully gay marriage will be legalised soon. Fingers crossed right? I can’t believe this is still an issue- considering most other civilised places have legalised it.

Anyway, I do think we are heading in the right direction- interracial marriage wasn’t even legal even a few decades ago. Things have gotten better for people. Even though there are still a lot of issues, I think it is possible to improve the way our society works, the way infrastructure, farming and that stuff works. Just comparing today to a hundred, two hundred or a thousand years ago, individual human lives have improved. We keep on trying to make this world a better place by making people equal, by giving people the same opportunities, trying to discard racism and all these prejudice views that we held in the past and still hold today. But it is improving steadily.

T: On one hand you are saying we are on a self-destructive path but we also have this drive to self-improve- which way do you think it is leaning more?

S: I think socially – as in the way we treat each other and the way that we perceive and the way our society works- we are definitely improving. We look at the world and the bigger picture- we are definitely improving. A lot of people are realising, “Oh yeah, the environment actually does matter.” We have these animal groups and environment groups and political parties that are trying to actually save the environment. I think that is definitely getting better but I still think it is still unbelievable on how damaging we are to the overall world. I think it is getting better the way we take care of the environment and the way we use our new found technology. As humans, it is improving… but it is still bad.

 THE IMPORTANCE OF FAMILY AND FRIENDS

T: Now to be a bit more light on topic- right now I can see you going to uni, having fun with friends and spending a lot of time with your family. Looking at your life right now, can you tell me what is most important to you?

S: Um.

T: Can’t be memes.

S: Dammit, now I have to think harder, haha.

I think what I value the most is people. Above all else, I value my friends and my family above myself or my future goals or my career. I think seeing friends and talking to them and helping them out is what really motivates me to live. People like you and Reece and my friend Ashleigh who I just visited in Wollongong. I think it is worth putting time, effort and money and being able to share my life with other people that I care about. Friends and my family are really important to me.

I do think having friends is key to happiness. And having a loving family or making the best from the family you have is the best thing you can do. My parents were divorced so I don’t talk to my dad as much but, you know what, whatever! I have my mum and my brothers; I can still talk to them. They are the only family I have here in Australia but I still try to make the best out of that situation.

T: That’s beautiful! Thanks for sharing that with me. Going on from this, where do you see yourself going in the future and with your life?

S: I want to pursue a career in science. So once I finish uni and all my studies I would like to become a scientist but that might change- I might decide it is not for me and do something else. I don’t know whether in ten years I will have a family or not, I don’t really know. I just want to be surrounded by friends and stay in touch with friends who aren’t in my immediate vicinity. AKA people like you or people who live in Czech or different countries or states- I want to stay in contact with them. I want to make a lot of new friends as well, many different people. I want to travel more- I might want to live somewhere internationally, maybe in Europe or Czech for a year. Who knows. What is important to me is that I am on good terms with the people that I care about and my family. Whether it is being on good terms with my father or my brother Mark. That’s where I see myself in ten years.

T: It is beautiful to hear how you are so focussed on the people around you. I often talk about this with my sister in law because we have both moved to different places and you can tell who values you by who puts in the effort to connect with you when you can’t just go catch up over a coffee. You can tell the difference between the people who see you as a friend and someone you have a connection with and who just saw you as their entertainment when they were bored.

S: You’re so right. That’s what I really like about you. You have always inspired me to be a better person and you have taught me so much about life and the world in general. I think growing up with you have been an absolute pleasure. Exploring my views on religion and society and being able to talk to someone as invested in that as you I think has been really beneficial. My view of the world today would be completely different if I hadn’t met you- I want to thank you for that!

Just the way you view people and friends and family, it is a very mature and not a selfish way- you don’t let yourself be used by people and I like that. You stand your ground whenever someone tries to attack you or tries to mistreat you in anyway. I think to myself, “If Tahney can do that, why can’t I?”

 BACK TO ME

AT THE END OF EACH INTERVIEW I ENCOURAGE THE INTERVIEWEE TO TURN THE DIALOGUE BACK TOWARD ME TO OPEN UP THE CONVERSATION AND FLESH OUT OUR RELATIONSHIP BOTH WAYS

T: So, on the topic of me, did you want to ask me a question? It can be absolutely anything.

S: What motivated you to move interstate to Melbourne with your boyfriend? What motivated you, what was the breaking point when you thought, “Ok, I am moving. I am packing my things and I am moving interstate. This is my plan for the future.”

T: I think I was just so fed up by you, Simon.

S: It was the ski trip- you were like, “Ok, I need to leave the state!”

T: The first time me and Reece ever thought about moving to Melbourne, I was in Bristol. As you know, I moved out of home when I was 19 and it was pretty terrible experience. I just applied to go for an exchange to the University of Bristol and I got in. It was an amazing experience, I was finally able to exist as who I was rather than by pressures of who was around me. I grew up in such a small religious community and country town and tiny circle of family friends. I was constantly being told, “This is who you have to be, this is how you have to act.” Being in Bristol, it was a scary idea to come back to Adelaide and being put back into a world that I wasn’t very happy in. Then I got back, I had to finish uni. I finished and I didn’t get a job straight away which was really disappointing, it confirmed my worst fears. I went and got a job as a gym manager, I wasn’t very happy there either. As someone who loves to work independently on projects, I was chained to a desk and in an environment of people weren’t my sort of people –they were great but not people I was relating with.

Then- the breaking point!- I crashed my scooter. I tipped my bike on Goodwood Road, I smashed my knee open. It was such a weird experience. I’ve never hurt my body before- I have hurt emotions but never the feeling of having an impact to my body. Every time I went to bed for the next few months, it was this inertia thing of hitting the bitumen. It really upset my emotional state. I experienced a lot of anxiety and fainting spells.

I was like, “Ok, I am not happy. I want to move to Melbourne and find what makes me happy.”

I just took a plane to Melbourne. One day I told my boss I had to go and got the day off. I stayed in a hostel and I walked around [the University of Melbourne]. I had been volunteering at HistorySA and I loved the community- I loved using my research skills and my love of history to connect people and try to make life more beautiful through giving people platforms to come together and relate. I thought the master of art curatorship course looked perfect.

I wanted to get out of a place where I wasn’t happy. Not that there is anything wrong with Adelaide. Obviously, this is just my own experience.

S: Going back to your trip to Bristol, do you think that being there showed you what you could really become? Then coming back to Adelaide, you could contrast and compare those two different lives that you lived- and you were like, “I liked a certain life better than the other so I am going to make that happen.”

T:  Yeah, definitely. When I was in Bristol, [I discovered] the people that don’t treat you well, they don’t contact you because they have no motive to talk to you because they can’t make you do what they want. You become free from all these negative influences. And I just loved the fact I could do what I wanted, no one was going to know how I spent my time. I would not speak to people for weeks at a time. I started pole dancing and became more liberated with myself and I started pottery class and I took an overnight trip one day to Paris to see one of my favourite singers. I just loved having that independence. Then I got back to Adelaide and I couldn’t afford pole class and there was no pottery class I could join and you can’t take a plane to Paris. So, I needed to find something that suited me a bit more.